Comments on: Partners With the Spirit, With Four Models in Mind http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/2009/07/02/partners-with-the-spirit-with-four-models-in-mind/ Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:12:02 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Duane Stoltzfus http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/2009/07/02/partners-with-the-spirit-with-four-models-in-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Duane Stoltzfus Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:08:35 +0000 http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/?p=1253#comment-21 Good question -- we'll check. Good question — we’ll check.

]]> By: Joan http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/2009/07/02/partners-with-the-spirit-with-four-models-in-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-20 Joan Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:27:23 +0000 http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/?p=1253#comment-20 Is there a typo----does Mandy's last answer actually name Janice Yordy SUTTER rather than Kauffman? These Menno names---they all sound alike?! Is there a typo—-does Mandy’s last answer actually name Janice Yordy SUTTER rather than Kauffman? These Menno names—they all sound alike?!

]]> By: Bill Seymour http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/2009/07/02/partners-with-the-spirit-with-four-models-in-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Bill Seymour Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:42:25 +0000 http://blog.goshen.edu/mpress/?p=1253#comment-19 I appreciate the 4 models and the creative look at the relationships between believer/followers and the Holy Spirit. The imperative for the people of God to feel some urgency to act in faith is needed. On the other hand, I find problematic the notion that we are in partnership with God in the sense that God needs us to act for God. This sort of thinking (God needs me) has led too often to well meaning people defending God or prematurely pushing God's agenda even into violence and even more often into dogmatic expressions of faith that shut others out. At the very least, it can lead to the age old feeling that it is not grace, but action that "gets us into heaven." I do not believe that the speakers were trying to say any of this. As I look at the New Testament Story, I see that God is saying to us - "I choose you out of my grace to be where I send you so that you may see and paticipate in real transformation and love." It's not that God needs us. It's that God loves us and wants to include us in God's plan. The urge to act needs to come out of God's grace and love, not our necessity. As humans we do not always do so well when we feel necessary. We do better when we feel chosen in grace and love. I appreciate the 4 models and the creative look at the relationships between believer/followers and the Holy Spirit. The imperative for the people of God to feel some urgency to act in faith is needed.

On the other hand, I find problematic the notion that we are in partnership with God in the sense that God needs us to act for God. This sort of thinking (God needs me) has led too often to well meaning people defending God or prematurely pushing God’s agenda even into violence and even more often into dogmatic expressions of faith that shut others out. At the very least, it can lead to the age old feeling that it is not grace, but action that “gets us into heaven.” I do not believe that the speakers were trying to say any of this.

As I look at the New Testament Story, I see that God is saying to us – “I choose you out of my grace to be where I send you so that you may see and paticipate in real transformation and love.” It’s not that God needs us. It’s that God loves us and wants to include us in God’s plan.

The urge to act needs to come out of God’s grace and love, not our necessity. As humans we do not always do so well when we feel necessary. We do better when we feel chosen in grace and love.

]]>